Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

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Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by iliander on Mon 12 Dec 2011 - 20:35

The main idea of this mod is to lower AoE3's timeline a bit. It will include new units such as the Arquebus (generic unit), Arquebus-a-Croc (unique unit) and Zweihander (generic unit for the Bavarians, Prussians and Austrians).

I'll soon post a list of civs. iliander
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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by Pepp on Mon 12 Dec 2011 - 20:39

Nah, do you want I decrease your Chivalry and send a MOU to you??

Don't post anything except you have a really clear idea, not just a paragraph and a sentence.

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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by peugeot407 on Mon 12 Dec 2011 - 21:40

I think it's a good idea though... At least in the 17th century Pikemen, Crossbowmen and Longbowmen still make sense.

You would need a number of new civs though, and with the 14 available AIs, I'd say those should be England (no British, this is before the Acts of Union), Spain, Genoa, France, the Ottoman Empire, the Republic of the United Netherlands, Muscovy (no Russians, this is before the unification), the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Brandenburg-Prussia, Austria, Denmark, Sweden, Bohemia and the Electoral Palatinate.


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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by Pepp on Mon 12 Dec 2011 - 21:49

Btw, I want you (Ili) to try adding the VOC... nobody ever care about South East Asia in modding...

And yes, 2 hours left...

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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by iliander on Mon 12 Dec 2011 - 22:05

I think it's a good idea though... At least in the 17th century Pikemen, Crossbowmen and Longbowmen still make sense.

You would need a number of new civs though, and with the 14 available AIs, I'd say those should be England (no British, this is before the Acts of Union), Spain, Genoa, France, the Ottoman Empire, the Republic of the United Netherlands, Muscovy (no Russians, this is before the unification), the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Brandenburg-Prussia, Austria, Denmark, Sweden, Bohemia and the Electoral Palatinate.

My original idea was to have these 14 civs:

- Spanish
- Portuguese
- Italians

- French
- Dutch
- English

- Bavarians
- Prussians
- Austrians

- Danish
- Swedish

- Russians
- Polish
- Ottomans

But maybe your list makes more sense. Especially on the Muscovy part. And is it historically accurate to have the Italians? Although I do prefer Genoa as you suggested.

Btw, I want you (Ili) to try adding the VOC... nobody ever care about South East Asia in modding...

And yes, 2 hours left...
It cannot be a civ, it doesn't fit. But, it could be a Campaign civ for a new campaign about the VOC. Or the VOC could be a submod from this mod, but it can't be one of the main civs.
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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by peugeot407 on Mon 12 Dec 2011 - 22:21

Well, Italy wasn't unified at rhe time, and, if I'm not mistaken, was split between two alliances. At one side was the pro-French alliance of Milan, Tuscany, Savoy and Venice, on the other was the pro-Spanish alliance of Genoa, the Papal States and the Two Sicilies. Milan actually was a protectorate of France at the time, and Genoa and the Two Sicilies fell under the Crown of Aragon, which was one of the two monastic institutions (though ruled by the same monarch) of Spain.


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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by iliander on Mon 12 Dec 2011 - 22:27

Thanks for the history. Now I think Genoa is indeed the best option.

But does Bavaria actually make sense? And do I better replace it with Bohemia?
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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by peugeot407 on Mon 12 Dec 2011 - 22:42

Well, aside from Austria and Prussia, Bavaria was the largest independent nation in Germany, so on that basis it makes perfect sense. However, it always alligned itself with Austria, while Bohemia actively rebelled (with Ottoman help) against Austria.


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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by iliander on Mon 12 Dec 2011 - 23:43

Hm, well... this is hard to decide.

But I think that Bohemia is more iconic, and Pepp will like it. :lol: So the list of German civs:

- Bohemia
- Prussia
- Austria

Also, this mod will have a new feature, a lot of units (Pikeman, Crossbowman, Zweihander etc.) available in Age I, Musketeers and Arquebusiers (somehow act as the previous Skirmishers) together with most cavalry will become available in Age II. Artillery and more advanced cavalry will remain on Age III.

It also must have new Age Up names.

Another thing is that all cultures will share some UU, for example:

Bohemia, Prussia and Austria will have the Zweihander as a Pikeman replacement, and the War Wagon as a powerful transport unit that can also train units (the War Wagon has a build limit).

EDIT: They will also have the Uhlan as a Hussar replacement.
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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by peugeot407 on Tue 13 Dec 2011 - 1:04

Uhlans were much later. They evolved from Polish cavalry, and only came into German service in the mid-18th century. In the 17th century, most cavslry was still very medieval, and in Western Europe heavily plate armoured cavalry, essentially Knights, still dominated the battlefield.

The Electoral Palatinate was also German, by the way. Come to think of it, why don't you make the German countries (or rather, those falling under the Holy Roman Empire) a whole new culture? Denmark, France and Sweden also held territories within the Holy Roman Empire (Hamburg and Holstein for the Danes, Alsace-Lotharingia for the French and Pommerania for the Swedes), but I'd limit the 'German' civs to Austria, Prussia, Bohemia and the Palatinate. They would get a shared set of new units, and there are many interesting gameplay characteristics. For example, the Holy Roman Emperor (and with it also King of Austria) would get elected by a comittee of Prince Electors when the last one had died. This, in essence, made the HRE a republic, even though only local rulers had a right to vote. You could make really interesting use of the Consulate system by letting these four civs choose an Elector from another state of the Empire (Hannover, Cleves, Hessen, Brunswick, Jülich, Wurttemberg, Oldenburg, Mecklenburg, Moravia, Saxony, Heidelberg, Mainz, Cologne, Trier, Passau and Speyer are just some suggestions). Many other things are possible.


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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by AOE_Fan on Tue 13 Dec 2011 - 1:47

Oh, and don't forget Finland! (you understand how much time I have spent to "get it in" to some mod Razz) It would have enough content for a minor civ, read all from here.

Or, at least use Hackapells!
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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by peugeot407 on Tue 13 Dec 2011 - 2:51

I think Finland could make up a large part of the Swedish civ. Finland was a part of Sweden after all, at the time...


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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by iliander on Tue 13 Dec 2011 - 3:08

Uhlans were much later. They evolved from Polish cavalry, and only came into German service in the mid-18th century. In the 17th century, most cavslry was still very medieval, and in Western Europe heavily plate armoured cavalry, essentially Knights, still dominated the battlefield.
You're right, I better use the Hussars as a light cavalry. Also, the Lancer will become a generic unit, and the Cuirassier will still be unique to France, however, they will become a ranged unit (retextured Black Rider).

The Electoral Palatinate was also German, by the way. Come to think of it, why don't you make the German countries (or rather, those falling under the Holy Roman Empire) a whole new culture? Denmark, France and Sweden also held territories within the Holy Roman Empire (Hamburg and Holstein for the Danes, Alsace-Lotharingia for the French and Pommerania for the Swedes), but I'd limit the 'German' civs to Austria, Prussia, Bohemia and the Palatinate. They would get a shared set of new units, and there are many interesting gameplay characteristics. For example, the Holy Roman Emperor (and with it also King of Austria) would get elected by a comittee of Prince Electors when the last one had died. This, in essence, made the HRE a republic, even though only local rulers had a right to vote. You could make really interesting use of the Consulate system by letting these four civs choose an Elector from another state of the Empire (Hannover, Cleves, Hessen, Brunswick, Jülich, Wurttemberg, Oldenburg, Mecklenburg, Moravia, Saxony, Heidelberg, Mainz, Cologne, Trier, Passau and Speyer are just some suggestions). Many other things are possible.
Well, it was one of me ideas to create a new culture with only Holy Roman Empire civs. Razz I also agree with the Palatinate. I also love your idea of the Electors. It can give elite units.

Oh, and don't forget Finland! (you understand how much time I have spent to "get it in" to some mod ) It would have enough content for a minor civ, read all from here.
Maybe we can use your Finland map. Razz Razz :lol: :lol:

Or, at least use Hackapells!
I think of them as a unique Swedish unit, replacing the Hussar.

I think Finland could make up a large part of the Swedish civ. Finland was a part of Sweden after all, at the time...
Indeed, it also gives more flexibility to design the civ.
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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by AOE_Fan on Tue 13 Dec 2011 - 6:21

iliander wrote:
AOE_Fan wrote:Oh, and don't forget Finland! (you understand how much time I have spent to "get it in" to some mod) It would have enough content for a minor civ, read all from here.
Maybe we can use your Finland map. Razz Razz :lol: :lol:
Eh, [insert a massive frustration smilie here]... You're sure you don't need a new version of the map? :lol: Razz
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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by The Dude on Tue 13 Dec 2011 - 7:49

In the 17th century, most cavslry was still very medieval, and in Western Europe heavily plate armoured cavalry, essentially Knights, still dominated the battlefield.
That's that's the 16th century Robert, not the 17th. While there still where some European nations that kept elite heavy cavalry, it was to expensive and was falling out of fashion.

I do believe heavy cavalry was the dominant cavalry during the 30 Year's War, but not the entire 17th century.

Also, the Lancer will become a generic unit, and the Cuirassier will still be unique to France, however, they will become a ranged unit (retextured Black Rider).
Demi-Lancer would be a better name IMO.

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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by peugeot407 on Tue 13 Dec 2011 - 10:22

That's that's the 16th century Robert, not the 17th. While there still where some European nations that kept elite heavy cavalry, it was to expensive and was falling out of fashion.

It's both. Also, I spoke of Western Europe, and the countries that had previously relied on super-heavy shock cavalry (mainly France, Spain and the HRE) were still doing so. The English and Dutch had never been too fond of heavy cavalry anyway, nor were they in the 17th century. I know the Poles were ahead of the rest of Europe in cavalry armour at the time and, for this once only, I will allow you to rub that in our Western European faces.

Demi-Lancer would be a better name IMO.

Demi-lancer is more historically accurate, but it sounds crap.


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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by iliander on Tue 13 Dec 2011 - 21:12

Demi-lancer is more historically accurate, but it sounds crap.
I agree, it sounds completely horrible as a unit. And you must take into account that Demi-Lancers could switch from lance to pistol, that's why they were called DEMI-Lancers. I want the Lancer to be a heavy shock unit, not some pistol guy.

I've came to conclusion for the cavalry units:

II - Hussar (anti-artillery, anti-light infantry)
II - Lancer (anti-heavy infantry, anti-light infantry)
III - Carabineer (anti-artillery, anti-cavalry)
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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by Pepp on Tue 13 Dec 2011 - 22:33

- Spanish
- Portuguese
- Genoa

- French
- Batavian Republic
- English

- Bohemian
- Prussians
- Austrians
- Rhine Palatinate

- Danish
- Swedish

- Muscovite
- Polish
- Ottomans

Hmm, that is my update for you. As you see, 15.

And yes, VOC can be a subciv, or native.

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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by iliander on Tue 13 Dec 2011 - 23:53

The Batavians should be replaced by the Dutch. And one has to be removed... there is a limit of 14 AIs. Crying or Very sad
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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by Pepp on Wed 14 Dec 2011 - 0:10

Portuguese? OR Bohemia, as they got the same leader personality...

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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by iliander on Wed 14 Dec 2011 - 0:21

I think the Portuguese should go, but I'm not certain.

EDIT: The Portuguese shall go, and the Genoese will replace their role. For example, the Genoese will have the Ribauldequin (looks like the Organ Gun).
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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by Pepp on Wed 14 Dec 2011 - 0:45

Hmm, and yes. Genoa is more special, as at the time, Venice wass running down stairs.

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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by peugeot407 on Wed 14 Dec 2011 - 2:16

It wasn't. Venice was still very important, it just didn't play a role in the Thirty Years' War.

Between the Eighty Years' War and the Napoleonic Wars, the Dutch were called the Republic of the Seven United Netherlands (Republiek der Zeven Verenigde Nederlanden). Under Napoleon they first became the Batavian Republic, and later the Kingdom of Holland. After regaining independence from France they became the United Kingdom of the Netherlands, and after the Belgian War of Independence they got the current name, Kingdom of the Netherlands.


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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by Pepp on Wed 14 Dec 2011 - 16:35

Ah, I see. And does Iliander makes any ideas update and upgrade?

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Re: Age of Empires III: The Thirty Years' War

Post by iliander on Wed 14 Dec 2011 - 22:31

Almost vacation, so I'll think about it more. But now I'm very tired, I also didn't sleep well at all. :lol:
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