Concerning the Holy Roman Empire and Flemish and English

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Concerning the Holy Roman Empire and Flemish and English

Post by PierceBel on Sun 5 Aug 2012 - 16:28

I realize the timeline is mid 1500's at the latest, but I definitely would like to see the following German/Holy Roman Empire bonuses and units in the game.

Units:
Landsknecht pikemen (or even a Swiss Guard?)
Landsknecht Zweihänders (The Landsknecht soldiers were implemented/created during the mid 1400s)
Gothic Knight - heavily armored and fights from horseback with a lance
Tuetonic Knights are also an obvious choice

Bonuses:
Fortress bonuses - while touring and studying the castles in southern Germany this summer, I found that MANY of them were simply too difficult to capture just based on being built on top of mountains. Perhaps hitpoint bonuses/armor to defensive structures? For ideas look here at one of the local castles near my hometown while studying in Schäbisch-Gmünd. I could see this castle from my university: http://www.gamundia.malts-more.de/jomart/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11&Itemid=25

Mercenary cost effectiveness - throughout the middle ages, the various German kingdoms made use of mercenaries from all over Europe

Papal Power increase when catholic, but slow to rebuild when switching between religions


Flemish Units:

The Flemish MUST have Goedendags as their unique unit. The infantry bearing this have low armor, but strong attack against cavalry and heavily armored opponents. Their lack of armor or shields, however, means that they are easily susceptible to arrow/gunfire and need to be supplemented by other troops to be fully dominant on the battlefield.
http://www.liebaart.org/goeden_e.htm

Flemish Pikeman - Possibly a special upgrade from regular pikemen, similar to how the Spanish are in Vanilla AOE III.

English units:

Longbowmen of course
Billmen
Hobelars

I know the English have been discussed a little bit in other threads, but I'd rather just lump all of my ideas into one thing. Smile


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Re: Concerning the Holy Roman Empire and Flemish and English

Post by Synecdoche on Sun 5 Aug 2012 - 17:07

Actually, the greater part of your ideas are in the mod already. As I'm not sure what we're releasing, I'll just give a few indications, but rest assured that our civs will indeed be represented adequately, and your suggestions are based in similar research, it would appear.

Longbowmen will feature in the English civ, of course. We aren't ambitious enough in our search for unique features that we'd ignore perhaps the most powerful battlefield technology of Western Europe in our timeline!

I'm not so sure about Goedendags as of right now, Flanders is undergoing some minor renovations, but Flemish pikemen are indeed a historical icon, just like Zweihanders Wink

And, of course, Robert has already noted our use of Hobelars. As for the rest of your suggestions, we have to retain some material for the Friday Updates of future months!

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Re: Concerning the Holy Roman Empire and Flemish and English

Post by peugeot407 on Sun 5 Aug 2012 - 20:48

I'll just do a quick list of what's in the mod and what isn't...

Landsknecht: Yes, as a mercenary. The Germans do have a way of getting them outside the Tavern (our Saloon) or HC though...
Gothic Knights: No, partly because the name would cause confusion with our Goths subciv, and partly because the French, who are generally regarded as having fielded the best Knights in Europe, already have a UU that replaces the Knight.
Teutonic Knights: Yes, but not as a UU. They're called "Ritterbruder" and are a Chapter House unit.
Goedendag: Not as a unit, though the Flemish Lord will use one, as will the Flemish unique militia-type unit.
Flemish Pikeman: No. The Pikeman is not a generic unit in K&B, but a UU for the Spanish.
Longbowman: No. These won't feature as UUs, because we felt the English deserved more... They'll just get the normal Archer, but alongside an RG upgrade called "Yeoman Archer", they'll get a host of Blacksmith techs that will make England's Archer much, much more useful than those of other civs. We feel that this way, we do the English tradition of archery more proud than by simply giving them a UU.
Billman: Yes, as a UU that replaces the Spearman.
Hobilar: Yes, as a melee cavalry UU that replaces the Cavalry Archer.


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Re: Concerning the Holy Roman Empire and Flemish and English

Post by Synecdoche on Mon 6 Aug 2012 - 0:30

I thought our Flemish UU was a pikeman, just with a different name. Hm. The Longbowmen are in, too, they're just the UU for a barbarian civ,

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Re: Concerning the Holy Roman Empire and Flemish and English

Post by iliander on Mon 6 Aug 2012 - 2:20

Synecdoche wrote:I thought our Flemish UU was a pikeman, just with a different name. Hm. The Longbowmen are in, too, they're just the UU for a barbarian civ,
No, he carries a halberd.

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Re: Concerning the Holy Roman Empire and Flemish and English

Post by Pepp on Wed 8 Aug 2012 - 22:36

I and Iliander used to call them "Scary Water".

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Re: Concerning the Holy Roman Empire and Flemish and English

Post by PierceBel on Fri 10 Aug 2012 - 3:38

Thanks guys! I do like the idea about the English NOT having "longbowmen" because they weren't even called that during the middle ages. They were simply referred to as archers. So, in my opinion, having unique technologies to make the English Archers better is a MUCH smarter system.

I'm a little put off by there not being Gothic Knights, but that's because I'm a die hard German fan. Perhaps Hussite warwagons?

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Re: Concerning the Holy Roman Empire and Flemish and English

Post by Synecdoche on Fri 10 Aug 2012 - 3:42

Briton Saethwyr will be using large bows and have an archery tech as well, so longbowmen will actually be available to any civ on certain maps, given they maintain control of the Barbarian settlements. There's a German cavalry unit that is unique, don't worry. They also have access to knights, which technically does make their knights gothic Wink

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Re: Concerning the Holy Roman Empire and Flemish and English

Post by Pepp on Sat 11 Aug 2012 - 22:39

So, in my opinion, having unique technologies to make the English Archers better is a MUCH smarter system.

I'm a little put off by there not being Gothic Knights, but that's because I'm a die hard German fan. Perhaps Hussite warwagons?
Well, English has some unique archery technologies. And as Germany, we used something else that is not Hussite Warwagons.

Concerning War Wagon, there is one reason for me not to suggest it. It is Czech's. Anthropologically Czech aren't Germanic, they are Slavic. Historically, Czech under Hussite (Jan Zizka and Prokop) were enemy of the Holy Roman Empire (Germany).
Game wise, the model used by something else.

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