Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

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Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Hoop Thrower on Mon 19 Nov 2012 - 12:12

This is an idea stemming from the recent discussion on the Friday updates topic, it's not to be taken seriously as a mod that will progress, at least not for now, since everyone's got to be busy with something.
It is nonetheless, an interesting thought experiment.

Asia

Largest continent in the planet, home to milenary cultures and countless dynasties, largely ignored by the western media, with the exception of a few key places (Namely, Japan and most recently, China.)

The Asian Dynasties expansion for age of empires III gave us a view of how one could make an asian civilization work in a modern setting, with 3 different civilization from wildly different time periods (15th century China, 17 century Japan, 19th century India.)
Alas, this was too little, theres' much more to Asia than that, and here I want to propose an idea for a more complete view of Asia:

For a modern Asia, I'd make a mod that takes place between the 17th and the 19th century, since that's the period when European involvemente here was more marked, and where it saw the rise, and fall, of many empires.

Now, who should appear here?

Japan: I'd make little, if any, changes to this civ, it fits perfectly in the context of the mod and the civ in general has a very unique and interesting gameplay.

China: China is more... difficult, particularly to it's unstable nature in this period (The Qing weren't exactly too strong politically, at least in their late years), so I have ideas for 3, even 4 civs.
One thing's for sure, they have to be changed, the chinese as portrayed in Age of Empires III are waay to archaic, but for simplicity's sake, I'd split them in two civs, Imperial China and the Heavenly Kingdom

Imperial China: Keeps all the features and bonuses of AoE3's China, only units get modernized.

Units:
Chu-ko-nu: Too iconic for the chinese to be left out, without mentioning it still saw use even during the 19th century.

Qiang Pikeman Boxer: A peasant armed with a spear, halberd or sword, it'd be really good if the unit had the 3 variants actually.
The concept is perfect, as for an archaic unit set in a modern type, you can't get anything better than this.


Arquebusier Matchlockman: A slight historical update, based on the Taiping rebellion, unit wouldn't change much in other cases.


Changdao: It's not very easy to find a good chinese swordsman, so I'd say we'd got to keep this one.

Keshik Manchu: It fits more the setting and the civ (remember the Qing was Manchu based), and since the unit is ingame and it's a cavalry archer too, it's just too good to pass.
To not make them look to archaic though, they could use guns, like this:


Iron Flail and Meteor hammer: The weapons are kinda medieval, but for uniqueness sake, and given that any change I'd suggest wouldn't make them vary much in appearance anyway, I'd say we should keep them.

Flamethrower & Hand Cannon: They were still used to some degree during the Qing Dynasty, so also should be here.

Flying Crow Huo Che: The Flying Crow has dubious origins and it's really old anyway, so for a replacement I offer the huo Jian, wich is, well, an organ gun basically, or the granddaddy of the Hwacha, though there's evidence that it still was used at least until the Taiping Rebellion


Taiping: The other China, still haven't gotten around to thinking about the bonuses, but something I had in mind would be like this:

Start with more villagers, but less crates.
Infantry trains from villages.
Each time you build a village, a Holy Warrior spawns from it.


units:
Holy Warrior: Basic Taiping Infantry, armed with a bamboo spear, good against cavalry when in large numbers.
Wu-tsu: Basic gunpowder unit, can be either male or female, accomplishes the role of a musketeer.
Tigerman: Fast moving counter-cavalry infantry, dressed like a tiger.
Bodyguard: Taiping more experienced soldier, available from age 3, it's a skirmisher unit.

Nienfei Cavalry: Basic cavalry unit, is somewhat better at sieging.
Wang: Ranged cavalry unit, represents Taiping soldiers of higher ranks, so should be costlier and more effective than your average dragoon.

Wood Cannon: Small, cheap and prescindible artillery, good against other artillery.
Long Dragon: Artillery Piece, good against infantry and buildings.

Navy:
Same as China

Siam: It'd be a crime to not have Siam, being one of the longest standing nations, and one of the few that weren't colonized:

Their villagers are mounted on elephants, taking more population, but also moving faster and gathering resources faster.
Most of their buildings have auros with benefitial abilities.

Units:
Kwan-Chang: Elephant mounted villagers, they take 2 population slots, and do the work of two villagers, works as good if not better as a settler wagon, though it may be difficult to balance.

Krom Nak: Siamese basic melee infantry, they have area attack and can land critical strikes.
Gohng Archer: Siamese basic ranged infantry, it has area attack.
Saylo: Mantlet-ish unit, has a strong resistance to fire and uses a lance on melee to beat cavalry.
Puen: Siamese Soldier armed with a manual flamethrower.
Mahardlek Laikar: Siamese Royal Guard, has lots of hit points and a decent attack.

Towmorn Rider: Siamese "light" cavalry, carries a throwing spear to defeat other cavalry.
Mahomut Nwog: Siamese Elephant unit carrying a specially large spear, extremely strong and durable.
Elephant Musketeer: Exactly what it says it is.
Elephant Gun: Horse artillery-ish unit, wich means it moves fast and has a decent attack, but it's costly.
Phraya Tani: A ridulously large gun, a siamese lil' bombard basically.

Navy:

Fishing Boat: Same as ever.
Mông đồng: Basic South-east asia warship
Tây Sơn: Middle South-east warship, can train cavalry and infantry units, etc...
Lâu Thuyền: Monitor Ship, it's name means "tower ship"
thuyền đồng: Strongest South-east asia warship.

Aceh: Even though I expect some input from Pepp here, here's an idea or two.

All shipments bring crates
All units will grant a small amount of resources.

Trader: Acehnese villager, weaker than a normal one, but cheaper, and potentially more upgradeable.

Tantra Beude: Acehnese Musketeer
Sipa'i: Acehnese Skirmisher
Pamanahan: Archer
Uleebalang: Pikeman

Bala Gajah: Elephant Archer.
Pegawai Istinggar: Cavalry Musketeer.
Penunggang Cavalry: Melee Cavalry.

Dragon Gun: Basic artillery, strenght lies between aspide and falconet
Lantaka: Swivel gun, fast ROF, good against other artillery (it's indeed the precursor of the pasavolante if you wondered)
Meriam Melayu: Heavy cannon, good against buildings and ships.
Elephant Gun: Horse Artillery-ish artillery, fast moving and with a good attack.

Burma: Burma had an unstable history, with some impressively large empires that fell fast into smaller states in single generations, I believe it's worth an inclusion.

Units deal more damage the farther you are from yany Town Center.
Units have more hit points the closer they are from any town center.

Units:

Jingal Gun: Infantry unit armed with a small cannon, similar to the abus gun.
Dacoit: Basic skirmisher, available from colonial, can stealth.
Karen Warrior: Tribal warrior armed with a sword and a shield, good against cavalry.
Ahmudan Musketeer: Burmese musketeer, much more hitpoints than your average musketeer, but with a weaker attack.

Swivel Gun: Fast and mobile artillery, good against infantry.
Elephant Gun: Horse Artillery-ish artillery, fast moving and with a good attack.

Assamese Cavalry: Basica Cavalry unit, it's noticeably stronger than an hussar.
Kathè myindat: French cavalry pressed into Burmese service, armed with a pistol to counter other cavalry.
Cassay Horse: Elitary cavalry, has area damage attack and is really strong.

Persia: Middle Eastern civ, far away from all the other civs, but Asian, nonetheless, I'm sure Mr. Fusilier will appear here at some point:

Town Centers have more attack, more hit points and train villagers faster with each age.

Units:
Tiranda: Skirmisher unit, good against infantry.
Immortal: Really, really strong ranged infantry, but slow to move and train, good against cavalry in a melee.
Tofangchi: Musketeer unit, slightly cheaper, slightly weaker.

Toop: All around artillery.

Savar: Melee cavarly, moves faster than your average hussar.
Cavalry Archer

Korea: Because it had to be here.

-Buildings regenerate.
-You get righteous fighters everytime one of your buildings are destroyed.

Units:

Myeong Goong: Basic archer, has a large range, good against infantry.
Meoseukes: Musketeer unit, has a slightly larger range in exchange for poorer melee.
Fire Lancer: Skirmisher with are damage.

Twin-sword Cavalry: Fast cavalry that exchanges hit points for a better attack.
Hwal Archer: Skilled horse archer, good against cavalry.

Hwacha: artillery good against massed infantry.
Jija: Small Artillery, good against other artillery.

Ships:
Fishing boat
Kwason: Small battleship, can fish
Panokseon: Ship resistant to enemy fire, can train units.
Turtle Ship: Strong ship with a heavy attack, slows down enemy ships.


Here it is, obviously there's much, much room for improvement, as I spent more time looking for unit names than on the civs or features themselves, so left lots of space for development. Very Happy

Enjoy the read, or whatever.

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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Huanglukuzhu on Mon 19 Nov 2012 - 13:07

Flame thrower were not used it this time. Qing dynasty has its gatling gun troop during these years.
And no boxers. Boxers are religious group, not for formula battles. Qiang Pikeman is still can be seen in that period.
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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Hoop Thrower on Mon 19 Nov 2012 - 14:01

Huanglukuzhu wrote:Flame thrower were not used it this time. Qing dynasty has its gatling gun troop during these years.
And no boxers. Boxers are religious group, not for formula battles. Qiang Pikeman is still can be seen in that period.
Really? Well, that's odd, I was basing my research on this and this, though I've got to admit the illustrations are anything but descriptive.

Site certainly says they were used until the 20th century, but there's no information to back that up, so I'll believe you. Now, well, straight giving the gatling gun to the chinese would be kinda too powerful, wich is why I avoided doing that, it could be a replacement for the Flying Crow though, since that way you won't be able to spam them...

Qiangs were still in use? Wow, that's certainly sticking to traditions! Boxers could work as a native site then.

Seems like I forgot India (couple more civs too, like Afganistan and Vietnam), without mentioning how I'd fix the problem of having only 3 civs with wonders, but that's a task for another day.

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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by peugeot407 on Mon 19 Nov 2012 - 14:13

There's four reasons why modern troops didn't work out for China though; they were never properly instructed in the use of their weapons, they generally couldn't be bothered to fight, they tended to sell their ammunition and they were pretty much all addicted to opium. Boxers and Kansu Braves were free of all four, which explains why they were massively more succesful, even though they used massively outdated weaponry.


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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Huanglukuzhu on Tue 20 Nov 2012 - 16:51

Early age gatling gun (or machine gun) were served in imperial army of Qing Empire.
There is a big difference between formal army and imperial army in late Qing empire.The imperial army have many powerful weapons but they rarely use them for they rarely got into a real battle.
They were mainly used to show the magnificence of the emperor, and the empire.

Traditional weapons were still popular because they (Chinese) couldn't product new weapons themselves.
From Ming dynasties, Chinese started to be out of time. They didn't got citilized. More than 90% chinese live in villages these days, so they can provide food and clothes, but not weapons. There was no factories, no armourys, no any place to make bullets and guns. They can only provide bows and pikes to equip their army.


Last edited by Huanglukuzhu on Tue 20 Nov 2012 - 17:10; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Huanglukuzhu on Tue 20 Nov 2012 - 16:58

During Taiping rebellion war, the 2 most powerful army were Xiang army, and Huai army. Their main force were pikeman and musketeer, and ,in plus, mortars. They came into battle like a Spanish army around 1700 - using their pikeman to defend, musketeer to kill, and mortars to siege.

Cavalrys became a decration in these days. They took heavy armors, using lances, but served little.
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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Persian_Fusilier on Wed 21 Nov 2012 - 1:12

Hoop Thrower wrote:
Persia: Middle Eastern civ, far away from all the other civs, but Asian, nonetheless, I'm sure Mr. Fusilier will appear here at some point:

Town Centers have more attack, more hit points and train villagers faster with each age.

.

sorry if i told something that distrub you mr. Hoop.....
but i just want to show the truth of persia .... there are many lies about Persia and its history.....
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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Huanglukuzhu on Wed 21 Nov 2012 - 2:45

Persian_Fusilier wrote:
Hoop Thrower wrote:
Persia: Middle Eastern civ, far away from all the other civs, but Asian, nonetheless, I'm sure Mr. Fusilier will appear here at some point:

Town Centers have more attack, more hit points and train villagers faster with each age.

.

sorry if i told something that distrub you mr. Hoop.....
but i just want to show the truth of persia .... there are many lies about Persia and its history.....

The same as China.
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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by dietermoreno on Mon 8 Apr 2013 - 17:59

I think the ideas are jumbled for the civs coming after the 2 Chinas, but I think the ideas for the 2 Chinas are good.




Wow, Wikipedia says this drawing is from the Taiping Rebellion of the 1850s and 1860s. I didn't know China still used pike men and lancers in the 1860s.

Well actually I don't think its a good idea to have 2 Chinas, with Taiping as the other China, because since the Taiping Rebellion only lasted for 12 years, that would be like making the Confederate States of America into a civ in WotTA when we already have the American civ.

Maybee I think the Taiping Rebellion can be a tech that unlocks some unique units and unique techs for you.
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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Radwulf on Sat 13 Apr 2013 - 22:59

A mod about Asia would be really interesting. I like the Asian Dynasties expansion although I always found it a bit strange ... different eras for every civ and a weird chinese campaign, cool but not accurate compared with the japanese and indian one. Also, about the indians ... India is based in the late mughal empire and while they had a cavalry based army (at least before the XIX), they only get camels in the game. A real mughal army would look great too.
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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Hillys on Sun 14 Apr 2013 - 2:28

I hope the K&B team will decide to not only create the Mongolia civ but also one or more of these civs too,

- Mings
- Manchu's
- Timurids (Persians)
- Tibetans
- Hindustans
- Indonesians
- Kazakhs
- Bengals
- Tatars
- Georgians
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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Synecdoche on Sun 14 Apr 2013 - 6:00

The Tatars and Timurids are part of the later Mongolian khanates, really, so they won't be getting their own civs, but you'll be well able to have a Timurid town as the Mongols if you choose the right progression tree, and the Tatars are likewise incorporated into the breadth of the civ already. Some of your other selections are very strange choices as major players considering interactions between our other civilisations, as it would be quite strange to have Bengali warriors entering combat in the Levant.
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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by peugeot407 on Sun 14 Apr 2013 - 6:28

The thing is that while the Far East certainly has a rich medieval history of its own, it has no significant relation to European and Middle Eastern history. There was trade, certainly, but no conflict or even military alliances, and in the end K&B is about warfare, not about peaceful relations between worlds so distinct and distant that they were never even remotely tempted to think about military matters.

There's no need for despair though, the Mongols will have many different ways of being played, as Thomas mentioned, and there will be a lot of Chinese influences in the civ...


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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Capt-M- on Sun 14 Apr 2013 - 7:44

Wow, sounds cool!
I love the idea of Persians! (imagine what the TC would look like!)
I think that could be very neat, hope you guys get the time! Wink
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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Synecdoche on Sun 14 Apr 2013 - 8:42

The Persians are a Barbarian civilisation, but there is a Mongol khanate based in the area that you will be able to declare allegiance with if you play the Mongols, so I suppose the Persian TC will look like the Mongol TC (don't see the harm in releasing a little teaser)

You will not be disappointed by how the Mongols are handled. They're one of my pet projects in the mod (spangopola's as well), and I love them very dearly Knight
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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Hillys on Sun 14 Apr 2013 - 9:45

Got all the informations!
Thanks for the responses!
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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Capt-M- on Sun 14 Apr 2013 - 11:32

Synecdoche wrote:You will not be disappointed by how the Mongols are handled. They're one of my pet projects in the mod (spangopola's as well), and I love them very dearly Knight
So... the Mongols will be in K&B? Shocked
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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Pepp on Sun 14 Apr 2013 - 16:59

So... the Mongols will be in K&B?
Some units ideas and how they work done by Synecdoche and Spango, concept arts by Spango, and I texture them into units. Another good teamwork example.

- Mings
- Manchu's
- Timurids (Persians)
- Tibetans
- Hindustans
- Indonesians
- Kazakhs
- Bengals
- Tatars
- Georgians
We also somewhat include Han (which come from the same Chinese as Mings) and Manchu in Mongols. And for Indonesians, that will be a high historical anarchy. Well, in the middle age (1000-1500), the only important powers in Indonesia were Majapahit and Srivijaya. Srivijaya faded earlier, around 1000. This left Majapahit as the only one who lived up to 1500's. The bad part is they are too far from Europe and it makes no sense a Varangian fought Majapahit unit. Also, based on historical research, only one regiment of them found, the royal bodyguard named Bhayangkara.
Last thing, name Indonesia was invented in 1900's. Previously, we were called just Indisch or Nederlands-Indie.

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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by HAL9000 on Sun 14 Apr 2013 - 19:41

Will you represent the Mongol influence on Russia at all?
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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Pepp on Sun 14 Apr 2013 - 21:34

Well, I will give you a clue: Yes, there is one.

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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Tilanus Commodor on Sun 14 Apr 2013 - 22:13

I haven't fully read the concept, but I really like the setting. I'm way too inexperienced with Asian history though (sadly), but there are some Asians around and I guess they'd enjoy.

By the way, the more important note: I think we should gather these concepts in the Modding Council too, so we can also discuss them in a more serious manner to possibly enable a collaboration. I know that quite a lot of modders have at least one or two other concepts backed up.
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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Hoop Thrower on Mon 15 Apr 2013 - 6:16

Hell yes, I'd really like this concept to be given further form.
I actually gathered much more info during these months, but I haven't posted here because... well, it seems it didn't go over very well with the asian members of this forum, so i'd rather keep to myself until I have something more substancial to show.

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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by HAL9000 on Mon 15 Apr 2013 - 12:38

I have no power here or anywhere, but as a consumer, would certainly LOVE a mod such as this, and would be immensely happy if it ever came to fruition.
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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by sicunder on Fri 31 May 2013 - 22:14

i have entertained tis idea before - on heaven games- including the steppes , asia minor and persians arenot barbarians- it's the people around them- till india, greece. in between no major civs and arid lands- however i will include afghans as a minor tribe. making cavalry man- lancer type,
urumi can be made suth indian minor sect(the texture will be like those old temple type treasures in asian maps), cossacks and keshiks as natives too.

and cicle of ossus like evil hassansins(the notorius assasins sect) ai team in campaign- and in supermacy i hoped there stealth units would replace the the ninjutsu-zukai and will be available from the consulate to both cristian and muslim factions. but i guess i am too late to give ideas for k&b. a hassasins centered campain - which will start from the ending of crusades to henry the navigador's exploratios for the mystic african and indnan cristian sects of afro-orient. we already have half the major civs we need - we have one fourth of minor natives. and portuguese jesuits coming to japan.

you guys have made sea trade routes possible- my wish since long back- we can have henry the navigador inspired and africa-mediterranean-india based naval campaign and scenarios to familiarise the players with their use, like the official warchief introduced the saloon. i think it will help players to find an excuse for using beautiful but highly under utilized naval warfare and maritime economy this game can offer through special maps.

may be south china sea, indian ocean and carribean (not the original) maps for naval game play with minimal patches of land - like ceylon without the central land mass. and coastal trade posts (ports).

maps and minor tribes from the meditterranean, africa, indian parts other than deccan. adding concepts like pirate/smuggler island coves as universal minor tribes in all coastal maps/ai team- whom you can buy a contract buy paying them tribute from tribute screen and that will unlock them in your saloon and privateers/ wokou junk ships in your docks.

for land maps i suggested outlaws, marathan, highwaymen hideouts as minor natives. but only explorers and stealth units can see and explore their hide out trading posts slot (which will be visible as just one of the trade route post to other units for the first time to make it visible on the map or after researching spies.)

but this is work of the young blood here not for oldtimers like me- who will probably give up gaming,downloading serials and movies in a year or two- and who dont even know html. but for history and art related or any other stuff which doesnot include computer jobs like programming and scripting etc i am all ears.

and pep i could give you a very good excuse to bring indonesia in knb scenarios- google about - indonesia vs portugal confflict, seige of mallacca, turki saltanat's allegiance to mallacci salatanat all this were related to the explorations on which aoe3 were based.

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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

Post by Pepp on Sat 1 Jun 2013 - 2:07

Age of Empires III: Modern Asia has no relation to K&B.

That is the point.


Other thing you might need to know:
1. Barbarians is the way we call natives. It includes every tribe, kingdom, or empire in the past (after fall of Rome, before the Middle Age). So there are Quraysh (exist in the time of Charlemagne), Sassanid Persia, etc.
2. We might add some Asian map, but that would be Mongolian areas (I mean area which were under Mongol influence, as there would be... Mongol).
3. We won't have India in the Quintessence. Reprise? No one know.

and pep i could give you a very good excuse to bring indonesia in knb scenarios- google about - indonesia vs portugal confflict, seige of mallacca, turki saltanat's allegiance to mallacci salatanat
My answers are:
1. My name is Pepp with double 'p' at the end. You can use my other alias, like Mrs. Nun or You Know Who.
2. Indonesia won't enter K&B, even in Reprise.
3. What you told happened in the time frame of original AOE III. I myself also make a mod about Indonesia, 0,5% done.

Pepp

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Re: Age of Empires III: Modern Asia

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