Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

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Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by Synecdoche on Mon 1 Apr 2013 - 7:18


Issues for K&B Prologue's First Balance Patch

Or; We Know These Are Acting Funny

Alright Lords and Ladies, due to a certain in-team logistical lapse and the resulting rush to make up a large backlog of work over the past week, the version of K&B Prologue you're downloading today has a few shortcomings in debugging and balanced combat. It will be readily apparent, for instance, that certain Barbarians like the Hashashin have minor or major statistical issues in buildlimit, cost, and power. As I'm somewhat ashamed to release the game with some shortcomings, I thought I'd list them here so anyone formulating strategies knows to stay away from these features before we patch them in over the next few days:



  • The Barbarians have not, in general, received much balance attention. The specific barbarians available from the Home City should have statistics that are quite ok, but all barbarian technologies and quite a few other barbarian units should not be relied upon to remain similar to their current incarnations.

  • Some maps have trading posts with excessively large bounties, which are more than likely to be tweaked based on playtesting.

  • There are a number of universal Home City Shipments that have had to take a coding back seat to unit balancing. So some are either missing (a suite of "Advanced Building" and technology unlocking cards) or haven't quite been balanced due to interplay with other roughly-formed features (like the Native Treaties card).

  • In our manic week of planning, some other features have also not undergone enough serious playtesting to declare totally sound, such as the Saracens' Slave and some unique bonuses of the civs.

  • Civ Bonus Issues: Crusader Knight bonus is too large, Italian Mercenaries are too cheap and should not be affected by Infantry/cavalry cost reductions, Town Square is too efficient.

  • Most Formations have not been implemented.

  • Saracen villagers are too powerful, and almost all civs start with too many. Fellahin build farms at the old resource levels (too much)

  • Ageups need tweaking and rebalancing (e.g. Saracens get Halberdiers instead of Tabar axemen, and Muslim ageups are considrably better than others.



We will be working to change these as fast as we can over the next week or two, and any further issues that you can bring to our attention would be incredibly helpful for us to polish the game into a shinier version of itself. Just direct queries and found issues to this thread and report to the Debugging thread with technical problems and we'll get right to work on testing and fixing them.

Keep visiting the forum over the next couple of weeks to keep your game updated. Once we have a version with all features and major balance issues patched, within a week or so most likely, I have a pretty exciting announcement to give...  Knight


Last edited by Synecdoche on Tue 2 Apr 2013 - 5:09; edited 6 times in total
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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by Hoop Thrower on Mon 1 Apr 2013 - 7:41

I see a tournament coming...

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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by Vvv on Wed 3 Apr 2013 - 10:25

And the HC look? Damascus and Cesarea are indian HCs in Aoe3 twc and Constantinople is snowing!
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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by peugeot407 on Wed 3 Apr 2013 - 10:30

Nothing to do with balance, but yes, they're not done yet, as we've already mentioned many times.


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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by Vvv on Wed 3 Apr 2013 - 10:32

Sorry and thanks.
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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by Tilanus Commodor on Mon 8 Apr 2013 - 8:15

For what reason can you send XP crates from HC? Why would I want to send XP if shipments basically are XP? I haven't seen a real use for them yet. Enlighten me!

Ah, and one thing that particulalry annoyed me on Bosphorus were the wild animals. They often appear to spawn in groups and so they come to attack nearby villagers in larger numbers. I see you were aiming for realism to illustrate the danger of hunting, but then I don't understand why no military troops can kill these. It just seems wrong if a fully upgraded army of cataphracts has to watch some peasants close to them being killed by 4 wild bears without the possibility to intervene. Neutral
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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by spangopola on Tue 9 Apr 2013 - 23:55

A Taiwanese player reported that he feel the range of bombards are not enough to portrait its image. Seeing how by late game walls shoot arrows, it would get destroyed before it can deal any dmg.

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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by peugeot407 on Wed 10 Apr 2013 - 0:08

The damage that Wall corners do when fully upgraded is a too high anyway, and needs to be adjusted down not to be OP.


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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by Nosferatu on Wed 10 Apr 2013 - 3:19

I think the halberdier and pasive crossbowman, are very cheap for the power it has
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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by Synecdoche on Wed 10 Apr 2013 - 4:18

Yes, their costs are coded incorrectly and will be fixed. I can tweak the Bombards along with the walls, that's a very valid point.
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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by Hoop Thrower on Thu 11 Apr 2013 - 12:10

peugeot407 wrote:The damage that Wall corners do when fully upgraded is a too high anyway, and needs to be adjusted down not to be OP.


peugeot407
Heh, I actually had started to like playing tower defense with the byzantines. Razz

Speaking of wich, are the bizantines intended to have no unit that costs wood and food? It felt weird to not have that possibility when training units.

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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by Synecdoche on Thu 11 Apr 2013 - 12:28

Akritai cost wood and food. The Byzantine themes have neither the correct compositions nor costs.
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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by Synecdoche on Sat 11 May 2013 - 11:56

Tilanus Commodor wrote:For what reason can you send XP crates from HC? Why would I want to send XP if shipments basically are XP? I haven't seen a real use for them yet. Enlighten me!

Ah, and one thing that particulalry annoyed me on Bosphorus were the wild animals. They often appear to spawn in groups and so they come to attack nearby villagers in larger numbers. I see you were aiming for realism to illustrate the danger of hunting, but then I don't understand why no military troops can kill these. It just seems wrong if a fully upgraded army of cataphracts has to watch some peasants close to them being killed by 4 wild bears without the possibility to intervene. Neutral
Oops, never saw this one!

Exp crates are a relic of a bygone era that I believe were taken out of civ outlines but the code was never changed. You're right, they are silly. As to the bears, isn't it fun to sacrifice a villager as bait and bear rush an opponent's TC? I'm not sure why military cannot kill them, I'll make a note of it for the patch.
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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by Tilanus Commodor on Mon 13 May 2013 - 11:08

Synecdoche wrote:As to the bears, isn't it fun to sacrifice a villager as bait and bear rush an opponent's TC?
No. Neutral
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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by HAL9000 on Mon 13 May 2013 - 15:34

How about Yes? I did that once against an AI. It was GLORIOUS. Game over in 5 minutes tops.
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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by AOE_Fan on Mon 13 May 2013 - 22:32

This will get fixed in the next patch, aggressive animals will have somewhat the same distance as treasure guardians until they go back to their original place.
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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by HAL9000 on Tue 14 May 2013 - 12:33

Awwwwww..... Crying or Very sad
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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

Post by Synecdoche on Thu 6 Jun 2013 - 15:49

Tilanus Commodor wrote:
Synecdoche wrote:As to the bears, isn't it fun to sacrifice a villager as bait and bear rush an opponent's TC?
No. Neutral
Just joking Wink

I didn't even realize it wasn't a bug.
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Re: Knights & Barbarians Balance Report

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