Trench Warfare Isn't an Invention of the First World War

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Trench Warfare Isn't an Invention of the First World War

Post by dietermoreno on Mon 8 Jul 2013 - 5:38

Trench warfare isn't an invention of the First World War.

Trench warfare was actually in use during the American Civil War.

In the siege of Vicksburg, the Union dug trenches to approach the rebel trenches, with the Union digging trenches closer and closer to the rebel trenches everyday, until with some artillery support they were able to go over the top and kill all of the rebels in their trenches.

In the siege of Petersburg, it was very similar to the siege of Vicksburg.

by late 1862 the Union had learned that bayonet charges across open fields toward rebel trenches was suicidal, due to the changing nature of warfare from the increased range and accuracy that the rifle offered over the musket since every infantry man had a rifle in this war.

So then the Union decided to copy the rebels and dig their own trenches, but instead of defensive trenches, these would be offensive trenches that were dug closer and closer to the rebel trenches.

The rebels had been digging defensive trenches since the begging of the war, and the "gentlemanly" Union soldiers charging to the "uncivilized" rebels was one of the things that prolonged the war by a year and a half instead of being over as soon as it started.

The Union by late 1862 learned that they too must be cowardly like the rebels and hide in trenches if they wanted to have any success taking Confederate forts. Artillery could destroy the real fort, but infantry was unable to take it because of rebels hiding in trenches that popped out and killed any Union forces advancing toward the rebel trenches.

I think I should make trench buildable in age 5 for the Union and an age earlier, in age 4, for the Confederates.

Well there is already the shelter, but since you have to garrision something in side it, it is not very effective, and the machine gun attack is not historically accurate. I will change the shelter attack from being a machine gun attack when upgrade to trench to being a rifle volley attack when upgrade to trench (rifle attack but with 3.0 area gives it several projectiles coming out at the same time like a volley being fired).

Also I am making fixed guns buildable by wagon on both sides, with the wagon in place of the sapper since I'm getting rid of all melee units. The fixed gun would be the most powerful gun in the game with the longest range, longest LOS, and greatest damage, but it can't move. Although it can rotate on its turret, which gives it an advantage to man hauled Parrot rifles that must be slowly turned around by manual labor.

Well so while were at it:

barracks: spontooner --> Continental (age 2)

artillery foundry: sapper --> fixed gun (age 4)

Also, I think I will make militia actually cheap, so they actually have a purpose, and upon age up to age 4 they will automatically have damage, LOS, and range increased and they will show rifleman skin and the militia has only one upgrade in age 3, which the age 3 militia upgrade has the skin of the Lieutenant rifleman upgrade, which is actually more historically accurate that the militia went from unorganized to looking like European soldiers with shakos to when the Civil War started they ditched the shakos for forage caps because they were getting sun burnt from wearing the shakos.

Also, I will get rid of upgrades higher than corporal for all units. The units have enough starting damage and hit points, and if you need more you upgrade at the arsenal. Well and also I will remove all artillery foundry upgrades for artillery, they have enough starting damage and hitpoints, and if you need more you upgrade at the arsenal.

Also increasing pop to 250.

So infantry will be weaker in general, but you will have more of it.
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Re: Trench Warfare Isn't an Invention of the First World War

Post by Mandos on Mon 8 Jul 2013 - 5:47

Nothing new here, first mission of Call of Juarez Bound in Blood, you are in the Civil War fighting in trenches. Yes, other games can also teach you stuff.
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Re: Trench Warfare Isn't an Invention of the First World War

Post by super7700 on Mon 8 Jul 2013 - 8:10

Trench warfare wasn't an invention of the American Civil War either. I know that the Maori used them to a great effect when fighting the British in New Zealand a bit earlier in the 19th century, and I'm sure that they have been used before that as well.
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Re: Trench Warfare Isn't an Invention of the First World War

Post by Synecdoche on Mon 8 Jul 2013 - 8:55

I know the Siege of Sevastopol involved extensive uses of trenches 11 years before the US Civil War, and ditch fortifications were used since antiquity as well both defensively and offensively (during sapping). The Crimean War and especially Sevastopol are the first times I know that they were used as a largescale defense against firearms, but as super7700 says there are probably many more instances.
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Re: Trench Warfare Isn't an Invention of the First World War

Post by dietermoreno on Mon 8 Jul 2013 - 9:27

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_warfare

Well so according to Wikipedia, defensive trenches were dug by the Roman legions each night at camps when the legion was on the move, but those trenches didn't play a key role in the outcome of wars.

Well, Wikipedia says the first defensive trenches that played a key role in the outcome of wars was the Lines of Stollhofen in 1704, but the trenches were demolished when the war was over. The Lines of Weissenburg were also used in 1706 and used in the Napoleonic Wars in the last hundred days.

Wikipedia says that the Lines of Torres Vedras in 1809 and 1810 were effective at stopping the French advance.

but these trenches were all defensive trenches, not offensive trenches.

I think the first offensive trenches might have been at the Siege of Vicksburg in 1863.
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Re: Trench Warfare Isn't an Invention of the First World War

Post by peugeot407 on Mon 8 Jul 2013 - 9:30

I was going to say, it would be a crime to miss out on either Sebastopol or the Lines of Torres Vedras when discussing trench warfare...


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