Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

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Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Gohar on Sat 23 Nov 2013 - 23:46

hi guys,
Thanks a lot for K&B, it is awesome.
Sadly I found a lot of things wrong while playing Saracens and would like them fixed (some of them may seem small things but they matter to me)
1) Saracens have a Masjid (i.e. what some people call mosques) like the ottoman turks in AOE3 not churches, pls correct the name from churches to masjid.
2) Salahuddin's character doesn't look much like Sallahuddin Ayyubi (e.g. no beard and very english-looking). Pls remake it.
3) The Saracen home city looks more like a red indian village. The Saracens were arabs and had proper homes, markets and masjids and not tents.
4) Many home-city cards are black which makes things hard and irritating
as I am not and actual programmer, I dont know exactly how hard these changes will be to make but I'd be grateful for them. It will make my great experience greater Smile
Also: I did the mod but have only about 5-6 playable civs, but I read about so many civs in this game (about 14 I think), where are they?

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by ACN45trooper on Sat 23 Nov 2013 - 23:59

I'm not part of the K&B team, but I will reply to you:

The true is that Saracens are a really incomplete civ in this Prologue version

1) Small detail that can be fixed by them

2) Really, I dunno how Salahuddin looked at, but can also be fixed...in next version

3) Yup. That's clear, I also said that to them, will be fixed, I think.

4) And also in all civs, just be patient, is the first vesion.

- This is the Prologue version, that includes Crusaders, Turks, Saracens, Byzantines and Italians. The next version will be Quintessence, that will add 9 civs more, with a total of 14.
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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Pepp on Sun 24 Nov 2013 - 0:08

1) Saracens have a Masjid (i.e. what some people call mosques) like the ottoman turks in AOE3 not churches, pls correct the name from churches to masjid.
This is just a small problem, yet to fix it cost a mess. Robert don't want to mess up too.

Salahuddin's character doesn't look much like Sallahuddin Ayyubi (e.g. no beard and very english-looking). Pls remake it.
We have much more important things to do. Later.

3) The Saracen home city looks more like a red indian village. The Saracens were arabs and had proper homes, markets and masjids and not tents.
Robert in progress, don't start to think we are stupid hoes.

4) Many home-city cards are black which makes things hard and irritating
as I am not and actual programmer, I dont know exactly how hard these changes will be to make but I'd be grateful for them. It will make my great experience greater
Yeah, Hoop said that too. Pardon our laziness for this one.

By the way... WELCOME! Severe Laughter Mrs. Nun iliander 
I am Pepp aka Mrs Nun aka Don Susan (my new alias), I am the most annoying moderator here.

The prologue version, as good ACNtrooper said, only has 5 playable civs. The next is Quintessence will add the other 9 civs. No more spoiler for this Razz.

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by ACN45trooper on Sun 24 Nov 2013 - 0:15

So.... Don Susan...............Why?
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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Pepp on Sun 24 Nov 2013 - 0:17

Its my new alias in the school, for some specific silly reasons. The same why I choose Pepp. Mrs Nun, however, is another case.

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by peugeot407 on Sun 24 Nov 2013 - 0:37

HCs in general are very imcomplete at the moment, only Venice is really up to spec.

As for the Church, I believe we originally planned to have the name of the Church change depending on the chosen religion, but then never worked it out any further. I suppose we could do that though, it would be an easy thing to code anyway. Just renaming it to Mosque wouldn't solve the problem, as the Saracens, Turks and Moors all have (or will have, in the latter case) at least one non-Islamic religion choice, that being Judaism, Zoroastrianism and Catholicism, respectively. Personally, I would think of the following: Church for Catholicism, Orthodoxism, Waldensian Faith, Armenian Christianity, Concilliarism, Lollardy, Hussite Faith and Hvitakristr, Mosque for Sunni Islam, Shia Islam and Sufism, Shrine for Zoroastrianism, Paganism and Tengrism, and Synagogue for Judaism.


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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Hoop Thrower on Sun 24 Nov 2013 - 2:13

Wait, is Venice considered finished? Because it still kinda looks too much like Tenochtitlan for my tastes...

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by ACN45trooper on Sun 24 Nov 2013 - 2:18

Agree with Hoop, I think the most finished HC is Acre, it only lacks a harbor.
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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Pepp on Sun 24 Nov 2013 - 2:54

Yes, sadly only that fort-harbor works in Lisbon HC base...
Because it still kinda looks too much like Tenochtitlan for my tastes...
So, any way to remove those aztecan statues?

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Gohar on Sun 24 Nov 2013 - 3:04

Thanks guys for answering Smile
hope that Quintessence comes soon, I've been hoping to really play as Saracens online for a long time since AoE 2.
Also can it be named masjid rather than mosque, gives a more comforting feel.
Pepp wrote:I am the most annoying moderator here.
^ I understand what you mean :p but srsly thanks for the answer both you and ACN45trooper and good luck for Quintessence!

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Pepp on Sun 24 Nov 2013 - 3:07

We choose Mosque because building naming are vanilla. That is why we have Observatory instead of [put a translation of observatory in Turkish] or race track instead of [put a translation of race track in Arabian].

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by AOE_Fan on Sun 24 Nov 2013 - 3:30

1. I guess we opted for a generic name due to several techs having a description of affecting "Church". It might be confusing for players to see a tech to affect Church while the building is actually called Shrine or something else... Then again, the same thing already applies to Priests (their names change depending on religion) and it's quite easy to code, so it might happen.
2. Pretty minor thing in my opinion.
3. As said, HCs are under way. Please note that we can't really use a lot of models from original Aoe3 due to not simply fitting the Medieval theme...
4. There has been a lot of work lately creating proper icons for HC cards and they'll appear in the next patch.
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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Hoop Thrower on Sun 24 Nov 2013 - 3:52

Pepp wrote:Yes, sadly only that fort-harbor works in Lisbon HC base...
Oddly enough, that Harbor also fits nicely into Tenochtitlan... Very Happy 

Pepp wrote:
Because it still kinda looks too much like Tenochtitlan for my tastes...
So, any way to remove those aztecan statues?
I may be able to, though I believe those are part of the model unfortunately... I would have used Paris as a base to make Venice in the first place personally, the river going through the middle gives a better feeling of the channels of Venice, some lightning changes and appropiate buildings would give a much better ambientation, making it look more or less like this:

It's a matter of tastes I guess...

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by peugeot407 on Sun 24 Nov 2013 - 4:48

I've worked all my magic on Venice, and I can't really do a lot more, but then I am rather bad at HC visuals, and Tenochtitlan is an excessively annoying HC to work with...


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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Hoop Thrower on Sun 24 Nov 2013 - 5:52

You kidding? Tenochtitlan is one of the best HCs to modify, it's just so huge that you can make impressively unique visuals, like what we did with Mexico:


I still think Paris would make a better base, but well, I'm not in this team, and everyone has their own tastes, so I'd rather let this thread return to it's original intention...

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by AOE_Fan on Sun 24 Nov 2013 - 6:08

As far a I know, it's possible to add new bones to HC base models for adding any amount of things you want... In any case, if Venice used a different HC model, it'd mean some other civ would have to use the current model because I'd prefer not to use the same model for multiple civs.

And Aoe3 is not Civ V.
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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Gohar on Sun 24 Nov 2013 - 6:22

Well I look forward to massive improvements in Quintessence, it, for me, will be like a super awesome modern improved AoE 2, but better Smile

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Pepp on Sun 24 Nov 2013 - 17:20

Well, if it is possible to add new bones, we might add new bones on that statues, then attaching something to them. Voila, problem solved.

As for Paris, you might need to remember that we will have... Paris.

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Gohar on Mon 25 Nov 2013 - 3:24

Isnt it possible to take an AoE city (from any game) make it less modern (according to the timeline) the give unique touches based on the location, religion and culture of each. You guys are awesome programmers, I think you can do this:
Like in Saracens take desert-ish flat land with some water (like an oasis), Make a large masjid (as masjids were also used as the main political building), add a library, a market, some old-arab like houses
and then add men with beards and light brown skin in toubs (the long white arab shirt) and women in hijabs (the muslim women's viel consisting of the burkha and scarf). There a Saracen home city, then you can add the details.
But maybe this will take too much time so why not slowly release home city improvements in each update while keeping home-cities like the one I suggested, but simpler for Quintessence(not too detailed buildings and large cities, etc). Hope I helped Smile

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by AOE_Fan on Mon 25 Nov 2013 - 20:19

Firstly, they are Home Cities and the Saracen one is Damascus, which certainly isn't just a small town in middle of a desert. Adding/making new 3D models takes some time and I'd personally prefer more detailed HCs over very stereotypical bunch of things with half of the area completely empty...
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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by peugeot407 on Mon 25 Nov 2013 - 20:45

The whole thing about HCs is that it would take about as much time to get one to be perfect as it has taken to fix the Prologue's bugs, and there's five HC to do... That's why I'm not aiming for perfection, it would simply not be doable unless I were to spend all of my time on them and do no other things anymore, and I really wouldn't want to be doing that...


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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Gohar on Wed 27 Nov 2013 - 0:27

Well I just meant that slowly keep releasing updates (which might be easier if there was an installer for both the mod and each update, depends on what others like) while slowly improving the HCs. Also I didnt mean that HCs should be large and empty, I just meant that they should be large enough to fit the important buildings and should show the culture and buildings of the civilization without being clustered (I just suggested how I think a Saracen HC should be like, sorry if I was inaccurate).
Looking forward for Quintessence
@peugeot407 of course I understand that the work is hard bro (and I appreciate your effort in K&B and NE Smile )

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by peugeot407 on Wed 27 Nov 2013 - 0:35

NE? As far as I'm aware, the only thing I ever did for NE was to allow them the use of some 3D models that I made for K&B... I have done a fair few things for WotTA this last year though, so I suppose you could mention it, but the vast majority of my work is still for K&B.

As for HCs, sadly it's not possible to make HCs look entirely as we might want them to, there's a limited number of ground models that we can use, so it always comes down to reusing bits from existing HCs.

You might be glad to hear, however, that the next patch will come with an installer.


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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Gohar on Wed 27 Nov 2013 - 0:57

Also can at least the Saracen HC be made to look like a Muslim HC rather than one for the Aztecs.
And even though you may not have done much in NE, at least your working wonders in K&B.
Note: I'm having exams so I shall now be a bit less active (hope to see u guys soon or rather chat with you guys soon)
p.s. we should have players on voobly I wanna play this online. Thanks Smile

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Maestrosanti on Wed 27 Nov 2013 - 1:07

Gohar wrote:Also can at least the Saracen HC be made to look like a Muslim HC rather than one for the Aztecs.
Not Aztec, Sioux. You confuded it with venice, didn't you?
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