Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Pepp on Wed 27 Nov 2013 - 2:38

Let me explain a bit:
1. Italy = Venice, similar to Tenochtitlan-Aztec
2. Saracen = Damascus, similar to ???
3. Byzantine = Constantinople, similar to Istanbul-Turks
4. Turks = Caesarea, similar to ???
5. Crusader States = Acre, similar to Lisbon-Portuguese

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Gohar on Wed 27 Nov 2013 - 2:43

Pepp wrote:2. Saracen = Damascus, similar to ???
Come on, even at that time Damascus was amazing Smile

Maestrosanti wrote:Not Aztec, Sioux. You confuded it with venice, didn't you?
My bad but sorry, I'm still confused. Salhuddin's people have gone from a great empire to an old native tribe XD

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Pepp on Wed 27 Nov 2013 - 2:46

Come on, even at that time Damascus was amazing
IIRC, Robert hasn't decided yet what HC base he will use. Probably it will be Agra, but later we found out that it has an annoying attach point which makes it almost impossible to attach things properly.

STILL, if I may choose, I want to make a court like HC for Moors rather than a city. Or maybe a city?

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by peugeot407 on Wed 27 Nov 2013 - 3:56

Damascus will be based on Delhi, and Caesarea on St. Petersburg.


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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Gohar on Sat 30 Nov 2013 - 2:17

In my opinion, house wagons are creative but I prefer houses so can the Saracen house wagons at least be given the ability to expand.
Some questions and suggestions:
1) Why doesnt the Saracen factory have any epic units?
2) What is the difference between a peasant and a slave?
3) Where can Fellahs be made from besides using an HC card?
4) Where are the mills and plantations?
5)Why not add gather points like in AoE 2 where villagers had to deposit there food in buildings after collecting an amount and drop of wood at other buildings once a certain amount was collected?

Besides Saracen house wagons, lack of Saracen epic factory units, imageless cards and weird homecities; this imho is the best mod ever Smile I dont even feel the need for a AoE 4 anymore so Thanks guys

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by peugeot407 on Sat 30 Nov 2013 - 2:47

1. We've done away with the entire idea of a "Factory". It wouldn't fit our timeframe anyway...
2. The Slave is a cheap and dispensable villager that is decent at gathering but very vulnerable to enemy raids. The Peasant (especially for the Saracens with their HP bonus) is much more resistant to enemy attacks, but also costs more.
3. Build a Manor.
4. Same as above.
5. Because that system was rubbish? I know opinions differ about this, but I personally think the removal of deposit points in AoM was the best thing that ever happened to the AoE series.


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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by AOE_Fan on Sat 30 Nov 2013 - 3:28

Slaves will also be unable to build any buildings, they can only gather from them. And I very much agree about the gathering dropsites, it was really annoying to keep rebuilding the dropsite closer to Villagers...
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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Gohar on Sat 30 Nov 2013 - 7:25

1) What about the house wagons? Will they be made expandable?
2) But there must be epic units for each civ?
Thanks for the answers Smile

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by AOE_Fan on Sat 30 Nov 2013 - 9:33

1. Do you mean upgradeable? No, they don't have any special upgrades.
2. What do you mean with "epic units"?
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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Gohar on Sat 30 Nov 2013 - 22:58

1) I mean can it be possible to give the house wagons the ability to expand into houses? Houses just feel more organized and comfortable.

2) By epic unit I mean the most powerful unique Saracen unit. Like Ottomans had their great bombard in AoE3.

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Pepp on Sun 1 Dec 2013 - 0:26

1) No, the bonus of Saracen is their mobility.
2) There is nothing OP like that. All ME civs get special UU in their race track. They also get a lot of UUs. If I say which is their epic unit, then it will be Naffatun, because egh, I textured them. Haha.

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Gohar on Sun 1 Dec 2013 - 7:12

1) If you play with Saracens, how do you keep your house wagons?

Will new K&B content and units constantly be added?

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Maestrosanti on Sun 1 Dec 2013 - 7:19

1) By moving them to a safe place
2) I don't know
3) There is no third
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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by AOE_Fan on Sun 1 Dec 2013 - 9:14

Indeed, keep your House Wagons mostly near Town Center. And depending on the map, nothing prevents you from moving your House Wagons to the edge of the map.

There won't be changes to civs in Prologue, other than balance changes. The civset related features may change, but no new UUs for existing civs.
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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Gohar on Sun 1 Dec 2013 - 20:06

1) Can anyone tell me when they are online and how they play online?

2) Can I have a replay of a game by anyone who plays with Saracens (It would be nice if the AI was on very hard, I have simply loved Saracens from AoE 2 so I really expect to enjoy them Smile ). I would also like a replay of Saracens vs Turks (both experienced human players if possible to see which civilizations abilities I enjoy more)

3) Will all the civilizations be made balanced in the next pro-prelogue patch (as in any civ can beat any civ on equal terms)

4) Are the Saracens strong early, late or mid game?

5) I know I might be getting on your nerves right now and I'm sorry for that Smile Trust me, this is the last time I will question this, but, will Saracen houses at least be given the ability to go from house wagon to houses and from houses back to house wagons? I request so.
May this mod <dramatic pause> prevail over all!!!!! Smile (no offense to other mods, NE is also great Wink )

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by AOE_Fan on Mon 2 Dec 2013 - 0:34

None of the team (apart from Synecdoche but he's been busy with real life lately) is particulary "good" Aoe3 player but I hope we can push out some gameplay videos, when we get at least few Quintessence civs done. I can try recording a game of me playing as Saracens against the AI but I won't make any promises yet. Razz 

There will be balance changes in the next patch but it'd take quite some time to list them all. We'll eventually make a patch note of all the major changes though.

Saracens are late-game oriented turtlers, with ability to defend early rushes. Age II is a little painful but they'll get their UUs and other civset features fully in action in Age III. I don't understand why you'd want to transform House Wagons to Houses and vice versa though... Question 
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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by peugeot407 on Mon 2 Dec 2013 - 0:44

The Saracens tend to be at their best in the mid-late game. In Age III they're probably one of the most powerful civs around, while they're still very capable in Age IV. Come Age V though, they'll be overshadowed by late-game turtlers and boomers such as the Turks and Spanish. Said Turks, by the way, are also the Saracens' greatest threat in Age IV, but are very much inferior to the Saracens in earlier ages, particularly Age II. Because the Saracens are mid-late game boomers, they're most vulnerable to an early attack map control civs, particularly the Moors and (to a slightly lesser extent) the Vikings. The Saracens are capable of holding off the Moors, but can't slowly take back bits of map like the Byzantines can, nor can they very effectively break out of the stranglehold with superior units like the Spanish; the key thing to do when playing against one of these civs with the Saracens is to make sure not to lose too much ground in the very early game, and allow yourself to boom rather than be forced into a turtle. Also, if I had to assign a supreme age to every K&B civ of the Prologue and Quintessence:

Age I: Italians, Vikings
Age II: Crusaders, Byzantines, Germans, Moors
Age III: Saracens, English, Mongols, Flemish
Age IV: French, Slavs
Age V: Turks, Spanish


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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Gohar on Mon 2 Dec 2013 - 1:13

Thanks AOE_Fan and peugeot407.
What are youre fav civs?
@AOE_Fan, well I do hope you make the repalys (They'll really help me decide if I'd enjoy the Saracens or Turks more in K&B)
Also I personally would like to make those wagons houses due to reasons like having a better feel, not selecting them by mistake, having a better looking city (Also I feel like I'm being cruel to the horses Razz )
I believe since such mods are made by awesome people for awesome people, the opinions and desires of the awesome people matters or else it would just become gaming dictatorship. Honestly, I think the option should be available for all those who want it (just because some people in a country find eating a pizza pointless when they have lasagnia doesn't mean there should be no pizza for those who like it Smile)
@peugeot407 So do I stand a chance against Turks in late game (also doesn't player skill determine the winner? Or does how strong a civ is in different stages matter a lot?)

Can I have some reviews of the Saracens too? Smile

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Hoop Thrower on Mon 2 Dec 2013 - 2:41

From a gameplay perspective, having the Sarracen houses convert from wagon to house feels terribly pointless, I'd rather have them stay as they are, it may not make much sense, but some sacrifices must be made for gameplay's sake.

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by peugeot407 on Mon 2 Dec 2013 - 2:49

We try to make it so that every civ stands a chance against every other civ at any time in a game, but each civ does have its prime at a different time during the game. It would be possible to defeat the Turks in Age V when playing as the Saracens, but it would be considerably easier to do so in Age III when the Saracens already have access to the majority of their strengths, and the Turks are only just starting to gather steam.

The Saracens in general are not a very time-bound civilisation though, as while they may be strongest in Age III, they're decent throughout the game. This is as opposed to the Turks, who grow to be very strong in Age IV and Age V, but are by far the most vulnerable civ in the early ages.


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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Gohar on Mon 2 Dec 2013 - 3:00

Well peugeot are mods made through programming, if yes then what language did you use for this mod?

Is it too hard to give the Saracens the house option?

what is your fav civ (just curious, I'll find out anyways when I beat you online........well I'll find out even if you beat me but lets just think happy thoughts Razz )? Also how and when do you play online (I really want to cuz my exams end this Tuesday so I'll be very free Smile)

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by peugeot407 on Mon 2 Dec 2013 - 3:52

I've never played an online match against anyone or anything. Also, the majority of times I play K&B is as a means of testing something.

The majority of files that you'll edit when modding AoE3 are XMLs.


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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Gohar on Mon 2 Dec 2013 - 4:03

So.......despite making the game you don't play it for fun?

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by peugeot407 on Mon 2 Dec 2013 - 6:43

Not a lot, no. I tend to derive just as much fun from the creative process that goes into working on the mod.


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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

Post by Gohar on Tue 3 Dec 2013 - 0:51

Ah I see, but still I'd love to play with you Smile

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Re: Mistakes in the Saracen civilization

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